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	<title>Comments for The Spectrum Cafe</title>
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	<description>TransCentric Views: All Trans, all the time</description>
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		<title>Comment on chasing and vulnerability by jayinchicago</title>
		<link>http://www.thespectrumcafe.com/?p=1577&#038;cpage=1#comment-2611</link>
		<dc:creator>jayinchicago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 10:29:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thespectrumcafe.com/?p=1577#comment-2611</guid>
		<description>ryotboi, do you blog anywhere?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ryotboi, do you blog anywhere?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Out, Open, Closed, and In by Gina</title>
		<link>http://www.thespectrumcafe.com/?p=1580&#038;cpage=1#comment-2599</link>
		<dc:creator>Gina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Sep 2010 15:44:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thespectrumcafe.com/?p=1580#comment-2599</guid>
		<description>I think these are pretty accurate categories, but there&#039;s no mention made of the big bugaboo... how one passes (I know, I know, we&#039;re not supposed to talk about that). And yes, there is a similar spectrum of passing.

It&#039;s nice for a trans person to say, &quot;I&#039;m closed&quot; or &quot;I only tell a few close friends or community people&quot; but the reality is, if other people know you&#039;re trans (or have extreme suspicions) then what does that personal status mean? Yes, I this is verboten to say, but I&#039;ve known trans people who looked believably like their gender, claimed they were in stealth, and appeared as women yet spoke like a baritone/bass. So now it becomes, not just how one personally experiences their private information, but how it interacts with what others know about you and might not ask you about, might ask you about in supportive way, might be curious about, might throw in your face, or might use against you in an evil way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think these are pretty accurate categories, but there&#8217;s no mention made of the big bugaboo&#8230; how one passes (I know, I know, we&#8217;re not supposed to talk about that). And yes, there is a similar spectrum of passing.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s nice for a trans person to say, &#8220;I&#8217;m closed&#8221; or &#8220;I only tell a few close friends or community people&#8221; but the reality is, if other people know you&#8217;re trans (or have extreme suspicions) then what does that personal status mean? Yes, I this is verboten to say, but I&#8217;ve known trans people who looked believably like their gender, claimed they were in stealth, and appeared as women yet spoke like a baritone/bass. So now it becomes, not just how one personally experiences their private information, but how it interacts with what others know about you and might not ask you about, might ask you about in supportive way, might be curious about, might throw in your face, or might use against you in an evil way.</p>
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		<title>Comment on chasing and vulnerability by ryotboi</title>
		<link>http://www.thespectrumcafe.com/?p=1577&#038;cpage=1#comment-2581</link>
		<dc:creator>ryotboi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Sep 2010 06:48:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thespectrumcafe.com/?p=1577#comment-2581</guid>
		<description>right, abuse is abuse and should rightly be called out as such, whether it is a socialized (macro) or individual (micro) experience.

&quot;From my experiences, I have the best interactions with people who neither ignore nor embellish my trans history.&quot; well said, jayinchicago.

i used to think, when i was growing up and had several &#039;encounters&#039; in semi/public spaces with wolf-style abusers, &#039;why are these creeps after me? did i do something wrong? is there something wrong with who i am? who else *can* i be but *me*?&#039; and most importantly, &#039;how to i give these sharks a swift kick and leave?&#039; as teen from 12-16 years of age. getting authority figures to believe me was nearly impossible, and if so at great personal cost. it was only 13 years later that i realized gender-conforming folks, whether they are straight, trans/queer and/or lgb, are at higher risk for abuse, so-called &#039;admirers&#039; or not, since by their very existence of being &#039;out&#039; (read: simply themselves) they can attract abusers looking for the hunt already, who have their own cruel intentions, not pausing to consider the human being who is trans/genderqueer/gender nonconforming.

realising that there is a community of trans/queer gender-nonconforming people who experienced similar/parallel issues when in public or having relationships can help break the silence and shame, and encourage us to let go of how we are raised socially to be free with who we are and manage &#039;safe&#039; negotiations. because of much abuse, i didn&#039;t come out to myself for many years and had serious questions about how to navigate love and relationships because of the shame foised upon me, starting at a young age and continuing until my mid 20&#039;s, by cisgender jerks whose message, stated or by action, was clear: &#039;you&#039;re &#039;easy&#039; bait&#039;, &#039;we can&#039;t help ourselves because you&#039;re so &#039;special&#039;, &#039;oh, i&#039;m &#039;queer&#039; too and can you help me come out by &#039;experimenting&#039; with me&#039; or &#039;you&#039;re so &#039;different&#039; who else would &#039;want&#039; you&#039;, or &#039;you&#039;re putting yourself &#039;out&#039; there, so... what can you expect&#039; or &#039;i respect your identity, but in the end i see our relationship as &#039;kink&#039;.&#039; horrible, i wouldn&#039;t wish anyone my experiences as a trans person (who does like kink but in equal, honest mutual relations), and don&#039;t automatically flag cisgender folks who date a trans/gender nonconforming person. but in general i learn to take my time getting to know people, which doesn&#039;t mean i foreswear all relations. maybe it&#039;s because i&#039;m not awash in a &#039;community&#039; per se, but do see common patterns in many that mirror my own lived experience. i did have to relearn what love means, develop a strong sense of self-respect in the face of abuse. to realize that a) i&#039;m not alone; b) there are many forms of intimacy and how to express it, c) i can embrace who i am and allow others too who meet me sincerely &amp; squarely from the root of humanity instead of what flavor/variety of homosapiens i am. this above &#039;a-b-c&#039; journey is truly empowering, affirming my own boundaries &amp; desires while being a part of intergendered communities concerned and openly struggling with obtaining the same rights everyone else should deserve: living free from the inside out and loving without fear.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>right, abuse is abuse and should rightly be called out as such, whether it is a socialized (macro) or individual (micro) experience.</p>
<p>&#8220;From my experiences, I have the best interactions with people who neither ignore nor embellish my trans history.&#8221; well said, jayinchicago.</p>
<p>i used to think, when i was growing up and had several &#8216;encounters&#8217; in semi/public spaces with wolf-style abusers, &#8216;why are these creeps after me? did i do something wrong? is there something wrong with who i am? who else *can* i be but *me*?&#8217; and most importantly, &#8216;how to i give these sharks a swift kick and leave?&#8217; as teen from 12-16 years of age. getting authority figures to believe me was nearly impossible, and if so at great personal cost. it was only 13 years later that i realized gender-conforming folks, whether they are straight, trans/queer and/or lgb, are at higher risk for abuse, so-called &#8216;admirers&#8217; or not, since by their very existence of being &#8216;out&#8217; (read: simply themselves) they can attract abusers looking for the hunt already, who have their own cruel intentions, not pausing to consider the human being who is trans/genderqueer/gender nonconforming.</p>
<p>realising that there is a community of trans/queer gender-nonconforming people who experienced similar/parallel issues when in public or having relationships can help break the silence and shame, and encourage us to let go of how we are raised socially to be free with who we are and manage &#8216;safe&#8217; negotiations. because of much abuse, i didn&#8217;t come out to myself for many years and had serious questions about how to navigate love and relationships because of the shame foised upon me, starting at a young age and continuing until my mid 20&#8242;s, by cisgender jerks whose message, stated or by action, was clear: &#8216;you&#8217;re &#8216;easy&#8217; bait&#8217;, &#8216;we can&#8217;t help ourselves because you&#8217;re so &#8216;special&#8217;, &#8216;oh, i&#8217;m &#8216;queer&#8217; too and can you help me come out by &#8216;experimenting&#8217; with me&#8217; or &#8216;you&#8217;re so &#8216;different&#8217; who else would &#8216;want&#8217; you&#8217;, or &#8216;you&#8217;re putting yourself &#8216;out&#8217; there, so&#8230; what can you expect&#8217; or &#8216;i respect your identity, but in the end i see our relationship as &#8216;kink&#8217;.&#8217; horrible, i wouldn&#8217;t wish anyone my experiences as a trans person (who does like kink but in equal, honest mutual relations), and don&#8217;t automatically flag cisgender folks who date a trans/gender nonconforming person. but in general i learn to take my time getting to know people, which doesn&#8217;t mean i foreswear all relations. maybe it&#8217;s because i&#8217;m not awash in a &#8216;community&#8217; per se, but do see common patterns in many that mirror my own lived experience. i did have to relearn what love means, develop a strong sense of self-respect in the face of abuse. to realize that a) i&#8217;m not alone; b) there are many forms of intimacy and how to express it, c) i can embrace who i am and allow others too who meet me sincerely &amp; squarely from the root of humanity instead of what flavor/variety of homosapiens i am. this above &#8216;a-b-c&#8217; journey is truly empowering, affirming my own boundaries &amp; desires while being a part of intergendered communities concerned and openly struggling with obtaining the same rights everyone else should deserve: living free from the inside out and loving without fear.</p>
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		<title>Comment on chasing and vulnerability by javier</title>
		<link>http://www.thespectrumcafe.com/?p=1577&#038;cpage=1#comment-2519</link>
		<dc:creator>javier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Aug 2010 20:38:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thespectrumcafe.com/?p=1577#comment-2519</guid>
		<description>lol good name!
&amp; i guess they don&#039;t come when you call them....
but neither do my cats.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>lol good name!<br />
&amp; i guess they don&#8217;t come when you call them&#8230;.<br />
but neither do my cats&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>Comment on What Happens When Your Identity Is An Afterthought? by Carto</title>
		<link>http://www.thespectrumcafe.com/?p=259&#038;cpage=1#comment-2509</link>
		<dc:creator>Carto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Aug 2010 12:45:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thespectrumcafe.com/?p=259#comment-2509</guid>
		<description>Nice to know I&#039;m not the only one.

http://cartographies-of-my-interior.blogspot.com/2009/04/iden-bugger-tity.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice to know I&#8217;m not the only one.</p>
<p><a href="http://cartographies-of-my-interior.blogspot.com/2009/04/iden-bugger-tity.html" rel="nofollow">http://cartographies-of-my-interior.blogspot.com/2009/04/iden-bugger-tity.html</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Out, Open, Closed, and In by Lincoln Rose</title>
		<link>http://www.thespectrumcafe.com/?p=1580&#038;cpage=1#comment-2484</link>
		<dc:creator>Lincoln Rose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Aug 2010 06:19:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thespectrumcafe.com/?p=1580#comment-2484</guid>
		<description>Nice. I&#039;ve always thought there needs to be more than just &quot;out&quot; or &quot;stealth&quot;. But then again, far more than &quot;straight&quot; or &quot;gay&quot;, or &quot;poor&quot; or &quot;rich&quot; needs to be talked about as well.

I just always found it odd that in a community that is at times stridently loud about the right to have the fullest expression of ourselves possible, we seem to want to narrow our explanations of things. 

Very nice post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice. I&#8217;ve always thought there needs to be more than just &#8220;out&#8221; or &#8220;stealth&#8221;. But then again, far more than &#8220;straight&#8221; or &#8220;gay&#8221;, or &#8220;poor&#8221; or &#8220;rich&#8221; needs to be talked about as well.</p>
<p>I just always found it odd that in a community that is at times stridently loud about the right to have the fullest expression of ourselves possible, we seem to want to narrow our explanations of things. </p>
<p>Very nice post.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Out, Open, Closed, and In by Antonia D'orsay</title>
		<link>http://www.thespectrumcafe.com/?p=1580&#038;cpage=1#comment-2468</link>
		<dc:creator>Antonia D'orsay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Aug 2010 20:08:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thespectrumcafe.com/?p=1580#comment-2468</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s ok.  One of the things I need to add to this is a graphic that helps make it more clear that this is a fairly linear approach that can have outliers for each of the groups that often overlap.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s ok.  One of the things I need to add to this is a graphic that helps make it more clear that this is a fairly linear approach that can have outliers for each of the groups that often overlap.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Out, Open, Closed, and In by Véronique</title>
		<link>http://www.thespectrumcafe.com/?p=1580&#038;cpage=1#comment-2467</link>
		<dc:creator>Véronique</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Aug 2010 19:50:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thespectrumcafe.com/?p=1580#comment-2467</guid>
		<description>Good thoughts. I can see where I fit -- basically kind of between two categories. Just had to complicate things!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good thoughts. I can see where I fit &#8212; basically kind of between two categories. Just had to complicate things!</p>
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		<title>Comment on chasing and vulnerability by jayinchicago</title>
		<link>http://www.thespectrumcafe.com/?p=1577&#038;cpage=1#comment-2466</link>
		<dc:creator>jayinchicago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Aug 2010 18:52:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thespectrumcafe.com/?p=1577#comment-2466</guid>
		<description>oh, and javier:
her name is Lil G[ecko].  But I usually just call and refer to her as &quot;lizard&quot;.  i don&#039;t think it matters much to her :o)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oh, and javier:<br />
her name is Lil G[ecko].  But I usually just call and refer to her as &#8220;lizard&#8221;.  i don&#8217;t think it matters much to her <img src='http://www.thespectrumcafe.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_surprised.gif' alt=':o' class='wp-smiley' /> )</p>
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		<title>Comment on chasing and vulnerability by jayinchicago</title>
		<link>http://www.thespectrumcafe.com/?p=1577&#038;cpage=1#comment-2465</link>
		<dc:creator>jayinchicago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Aug 2010 18:48:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thespectrumcafe.com/?p=1577#comment-2465</guid>
		<description>Sandra,  let me also directly respond to a couple of your sentences:

&quot;Why is it that a cis person fantasizing about me, a transwoman, is somehow evil or should be dismissed as having harmful intent? Why is it I am somehow unworthy of the same objectification, envy, and lust that a cis woman is?&quot;

I don&#039;t think you are unworthy of those things.  I guess I just don&#039;t really understand is what part of fetishizing trans people is really based on lived reality.  All a trans status tells us is that someone now identifies as something in some way different than was written on a birth cert.  It says nothing about body/surgical status, gender expression, behavior, bottom/top and dom/sub status.  If it isn&#039;t totally based on stereotypes, it must come pretty close.
in my estimation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sandra,  let me also directly respond to a couple of your sentences:</p>
<p>&#8220;Why is it that a cis person fantasizing about me, a transwoman, is somehow evil or should be dismissed as having harmful intent? Why is it I am somehow unworthy of the same objectification, envy, and lust that a cis woman is?&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think you are unworthy of those things.  I guess I just don&#8217;t really understand is what part of fetishizing trans people is really based on lived reality.  All a trans status tells us is that someone now identifies as something in some way different than was written on a birth cert.  It says nothing about body/surgical status, gender expression, behavior, bottom/top and dom/sub status.  If it isn&#8217;t totally based on stereotypes, it must come pretty close.<br />
in my estimation.</p>
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